please remove this article, its really stupid, first of all WHY is it only the Lebanese??? It's everyone who thinks this way, WE LEBANESE should not be targeted! Secondly I really doubt any of us ( as in Lebanese and other Arabs) are terrified about sex and human body, we just don't believe that being skanky, or open about sex classy, SO POOH, I am glad that US LEBANESE AND ARABS PROTECT OUR CULTURE, or else we would be the same like everyone else and we would loose our IDENTITY AND CULTURE and our traditions would be forgotten.

As for the Muslim and Christian part, I agree that people have different religions, but those EVOLVED NORTH AMERICAN RELIGIONS is all full of S**T, its all about how to take money out of people. So SInce US LEBANESE AND ARABS hold on to our Culture so much and we are PROUND TO DO SO, We need to KEEP it at Muslim and Christian, These two Bases or religion is where it all began, nothing more nothing less in the MIddle east.

What do you guys think?? Right or wrong? This is my view.

Ooh I can already this is going to cause some problems. I agree in some ways, but why are you only speaking of Lebanese? I'd say they are the most western-friendly Arabic country. Lots of them go to university or beyond, and many are doctors and scientists. But there is definitely a truth to the point that they are not nearly as "tolerant" as they claim, especially with Armenians, Indians and other immigrants into their nation. Some Lebanese can be really racist and rude, but isn't that true about every country?
Most of all, this opinion seems written out of anger. It may get a lot of attention and page-views, but it honestly isn't very professional.

zuzu and Lina,

This post is a comment posted by someone called 'pooh' on the article mentioned above, I thought i would share it with you so that you can show your opinion about what was mentioned.

It is not about page views or attention, it is about what you think about what 'Pooh' posted as what he/she thinks 'freedom of expression'!

* No swearing please, be civilized when you reply. Offensive comments will be deleted.

Yep the article is some what correct however it is not only the lebanese people that act that way it is the whole middle east..
and why go so far ... if you look close enough you will see that people not only differ my muslims and christians but by denominations like sena or shi3a or catholic or coptic for example...... Pooh the guys who posted this, needs to revise some sections in it ... but over all good work

Ah sorry ok I get it now.
Um Pooh, don't you realize that this is a huge stereotype of Lebanese? The ones that go out in the streets and make a big fuss over this kind of thing are a veeery vocal minority. Most Lebanese don't care that much either way if there is nudity in a movie! In fact most of them own a lot of DVDs with nudity, swearing, etc lol.They are too busy trying to make a good life for themselves than to make a big deal out of something so dumb. The people with no lives, the people living off of their family's money, the people who don't care to get educated, the people who just like to get upset over any little thing- they are the ignorant ones. Of course it's not healthy to always repress yourself, but it's also unhealthy to have no self-control.
Don't fight intolerance with more intolerance! Science and religion can go together. Just because somebody is religious doesn't make them a sheep, I would know because I am a Christian and I really don't appreciate somebody believing I don't THINK! If there's somebody's boobs on the screen in a movie, it really doesn't bother me one way or another if it's part of telling the story. But if there's nudity just for the sake of nudity, then it's trash.

Pooh.... are you Lebanese?

I would have to say that Lebanon is the most advanced - in terms of socio, artististic, world relation - in the middle east. Just look at simple facts, I call them facts because I see it happen in Lebanon all the time.
1) Homosexuality is legal. Although its still labelled as illegal for gay men, it is not eforced (but thegroup Helm is going to help enforce the change). What other arab country has that respect? You say that they pretend to be tolerant but most are (there are Gay Cafes, clubs, even stores... an entire street dedicated to things that may taylor straight to them). Answer to the question.. no other arab country.
2) Lebanon is the one arab country that has marine biology, seismic activity, and other environmental teams that were homegrown. As in, Dubai has them but they are not locals,.... they were hired from other countries. Lebanon took the initiative to be the turning point of the middle east.
3) I'm not going to say it doesn't have its problems, and that its leaders couldnt be better - because they can. Hopefully this year this election which will have no interfence from the outside and we will have passionate leaders who can correct the issues of the country. Again, not many other arab countries have so much say in voting for opposition parties.
4) I don't understand how it is medieval? It has the worlds largest hotel and spa, world renowned clubs, perfectly sustained ancient buildings and a downtown that is known worldwide as well. Every country progresses differently.. most arabic countries still function on air conditioning through the window. Lebanon has central air condition - sounds like a small deal but if you think about it that is an archetectural advancement lke the rest of the world
5) AUB is also recognized in canada and the US. Cousins of mine who graduate from there have always been able to transition to the americas to work. You wonder why they don't stay? Well obviously our economy is crap - due to wars that were held within our country, due to our civil war- thus the cascade that followed those.

I have alot to say. One thing, I don't think you can pinpoint this on Lebanese. Secondly, I don't think you should pinpoint this on other arabic countries. Not all are advanced, but its mainly the person who rules the countries fault and you cannot deny that fact. Sure, you can say the people should through them out of government but that is a threat to the persons life if they do. There isn't much political freedom in other arabic countries. Lebanon atleast has freedom of speech to every degree, we can insult our government. I know you will bring up assassinations... but I will just throw it out that those individuals who participate in them are NOT lebanese. As they do not live the lebanese way.. I'm sure many of you lebanese will agree with me.

Ps. Lebanon recognizes 18 religions, one of the Judaism. And atheists/agnostics are recognized but not listed in the religions as that is a way of life, not a religion. SO i do not know where yo get your information

one last note... I don't think the Lebanese live a sex excluded life....
Traditionally we have abstinence before marriage, not everyone complies. And, personally it is noone's business right? There isn't those dumb honour killings in our country. And if there is, people are arrested and are not pardoned because it was to save the family image - that is ridiculous

The only thing I do not agree with is when I see Arab men coming to Lebanon who revere themselves as the true arabs go to a hotel, pay a couple of lebanese women thousands for sex.
Most would do it too. I'm not judging them because maybe they need the money. I judge the men that have to come to Lebanon and exploit the women like that (these are not prostitutes usually - how I know... I have seen the transactions happening)

If you truly care about the middle east changing, you would actually do something about it. I am part of multiple clubs, I write letters to the government and I volunteer in the community. As Margret Mead once said :Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
That is a quote to live by!

i think pooh needs to go do some serious research...talk about being off

bravo ya Ramy!

and waleg min shan allah can we please not have any posts about religions? 3anjad blood shed will start around here. if it disses or critizes anyones beliefs..it should not be posted...just to be safe and for everybody to respect others people's beliefs. same should go for culture...this is us...love it or hate it hada e7na.

I completely 100% agree with faroo7a.
Discussions about religions would not do us, or you, any benefit.
It would be a smart move to remove this article and avoid posting any others that not only criticize and wrongly point fingers at religions and people, without research, evidence or any backing, but that are just down right rude and written out of anger and hatred.
Such posts should be deleted.

@ramy,i agree with mostly everything you said!!! lebanse people actually happen to be one of the most open minded arabs ive met.

@ pooh

what is wrong with keeping our 'arab culture". you need to understand that we are NOT western people we are Middle easterns (arab). we have our own beliefs and traditions. just because you think western countries are modern you do not have to call arabs close minded.
why the hell cant we have (evolution of culture, art, exact and human science) without changing who we are.
it seems to me that you are saying just be like westerners and you we will be "modern'.
westerners have their culture, we have ours, and other countries have theirs. and thats it!!!!.
iam muslim and i choose not to have sex because i strongly believe in my religion and i think my religion is the truth.
and i do tell others that i think islam is the truth. but i cannot change other peopls beliefs so i respect what they have to say and their beliefs and i just coexist. i dont judge because i leave that to god....

so anyways speaking on my behalf and many other arabs that i know, who choose to live a modern life and coexisting and still keeping our :"arab culture", with respect i say i disagree with you pooh.
i choose to be who i am an arab . and i choose to keep my culture.

I guess Pooh addressed the Lebanese specifically because the article was about a Lebanese movie that addressed a sex issue and was banned in Lebanon.

First of all this movie should not have been banned as it offers a choice for people to see it or not, as opposed to these practically naked and plastic singers who are polluting our vision and hearing with their 'art', there is no escaping them as they are practically shoved in our faces; This is a movie that addresses an issue common in our society and it was bad decision to ban it.

Overall not a bad piece by pooh and quite interesting but a broken record that is not factual but more of an opinion. A while back I would have cheered him or her on. I agree with the general idea, however the west is so advanced not because of freedom of speech or sexual freedom, where Westerners are free of repression thus they concentrate more on evolving and science; More due to the fact that their countries pour so much money into research as opposed to the governments of the ME excluding Israel.

I would say that exposing people to the
"pleasure, sex, the human body" has made a lot of them more depraved, more desensitized towards the act itself. Usually Lebanon is the least repressed in the ME, also excluding Israel from the equation but I guess we are talking about the Arab world. Living in Australia I have found the Lebanese here still cling to their culture and are more 'repressed' - your word- than the people in Lebanon itself. Their is nothing wrong with retaining the morals and values that define who you are and who your parents were.

However to each their own, and forcing your values should be a big NO NO, and this includes people that cry about freedom and so on. You want to be free and open to sex and pleasure of the mind and body, fine but you have no right to try and force these beliefs onto people and calling them backwards.

Our culture may not be perfect but that freedom in the west that everyone raves about is not so perfect either and has its own downfalls

However Pooh in regards to the last part about religion, tolerance is a much sought after virtue. Unfortunately even the so-called atheists or agnostics you mention hardly display it as they also try to force their beliefs onto people whom beliefs are different than theirs. I understand what you are trying to convey though and you are right in part, everyone should be accepted regardless of their beliefs. The way you conveyed is a bit offensive in trying to show them as you put it "is that they look for their own truth, they THINK, they rationally consider the world as opposed to you who simply accept what you inherited from those before you."... Using these words you show disdain for people believing in Christianity and Islam, yet you criticize them for not accepting and acknowledging people who search for their own truth.

tiney Pooh are idiot!

go do something he act like wiezels. Who cares about lebonan what they do!!
just like Silvana al not be banned al... the movie.

Israel would have to be a nation. Which it's not, it's the STATE of Israel: No boundaries aka, NOT REAL. :)

Viva Palestine :)

poops failed 2 understand that the 2 main & dominant religions in the middle-east are islam & christianity, thusly the faiths commonly discussed. What is the point of discussing Athiesm when there are no Athiests in the room? Yes Athiests are people whom don't believe in anything...hmm so what's next?

Maybe if you didn't live in the Middle-East, u would also be aware that the 2 main faiths discussed in the West are Christianity & Islam...surprise boo-hoo 4 u! Since when was being an Athiest akin to being open-minded, to me being Athiest is just the same as being a 'trendy' cynic who has lost all hope...i.e. the same type of people that spout 'Oh if there were a God then why is there so much suffering?' Can u even imagine if God actually decided to lend a helping hand once in a while? We'd all believe in him...all go 2 heaven...& all point in the creation of Earth to begin with would be futile. Therefore the test of Earth would be in vain & the non-deserved would go to Heaven too...it's very simple if you can get your head around it. Furthermore, if religion gives hope to so many millions, then so be it! If you want to be 'modern' & belittle billions of people in the process of past & present...then that says more about you than any one of those billions.

Anyway, this is a comment not an article...freedom of speech & all, even if it is a bitter comment made 4 the sake of bitterness...hormones probably. I doubt poops is gonna return 2 this site so dunno why we bothered responding 2 him/her.

HAHAAA I just read the part about sex being excluded...hmm wander where I came from then? My parents must've bought me from some Westerners who forgot 2 buy a pack of condoms, so threw me away when I popped out with a ready made sun tan hahaa.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU RAMY!
I KNOW FOR A FACT LEBANESE PEOPLE IS ONE OF THE BEST OPEN MINDED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD NOT JUST THE MIDDLE EAST!
NIGHT LIFE, SOCIAL LIFE - POOH PLZ GET UR FACTS STRAIGHT AND THANK YOU:)

Are one of the best open-minded people in the world *******
Waleg sorry for using capslock ;p

duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Indeed, this article was written out of anger due to some comments posted about the movie help. It was written quite rapidly and I never intended it to be posted as an article, i thought only very few people would read it. You say it's not professional, well it wasn't meant to be. It was written in a certain context.

Well now that it gets some attention, let me clarify my point.

I am Lebanese (both my parents are Lebanese, i was born and i have always lived in Lebanon). I am aware that some Lebanese are highly educated people, and I didn’t aim all Lebanese by what I wrote (Come on, my friends, my family, all are Lebanese). I aimed the majority. But I refuse extreme patriotism that forces us to claim that everything that is Lebanese is good.

I spoke about Lebanon because everyone on this website seems to be lebanese, i am not foolish, i watch TV, i know that in southern USA for instance things are worse. Conservative americans are no better than Arab extremists. I am not one more foolish teen ager in jeans and Ipod bowing to every stupidity coming from the western world.

Now before you sentence me to death, ( I know you would love to see the likes of me being hung) i suggest you clean the dust off your history books, and study the big revolutions that have permited europe to evolve culturally and scientifically since the middle ages. 18th century, the enlightment philosophy , separation of church and state, freedom of belief, tolerance, refusal of inquisition: still inexistent in lebanon, i mean come on we have RELIGIOUS TRIBUNALS . Later on, abolition of slavery (Just look at the way most of lebanese treat foreign home workers). Later, May 68 in France, sexual liberation, gay rights, women rights, open talk about contraception etc ( In lebanon homosexuality and even sex before marriage are clearly FORBIDDEN BY THE LAW. (But yes I recognize that helem is doing a great job and that homosexuals are accepted by small cultivated groups. On the other hand, have you heard about the two homosexuals who have been PUBLICALLY BEATEN by policemen a few weeks ago?)

You can answer: the hell with European freedom and evolution, we loooove to be governed by despotic religious leaders because it makes us feel safe to know that our social interactions are governed by an imposed morality.

But if you happen to wonder why, oh why, we’re still stuck in the 14th century (Ramy, I am not talking about how big our buildings are, how pochy rich Lebanese are, and how expensive are their cars, I am talking about IDEAS… is the concept familiar?)
And please, stop feeling good about yourselves by comparing Lebanon to other Arab countries. Steeling a car is benign compared to the mafia, but if you steal a car you’ll still go to jail. Do I have to shut my ideas up and pretend that everything is fine just because the situation is worse in the neighboring countries?

But you love to pretend that everything is fine, wow Lebanon is great because we have a beautiful weather and Gemmayze, let the tourists come and we’ll forever deny what is wrong with our society. BUT YOU CANT IGNOR FOR EVER THAT SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY, TERRIBLY WRONG.

Since when nightlife is the ultimate criteria for the greatness of a country?
I am talking to you about ideas, freedom, tolerance and you answer me about NIGHTLIFE and SOCIAL LIFE. How snob and shallow is that?

I am no foolish, I know that sex is not excluded in practice. Sam, I bow before your extreme cleverness, but even in the Middle Ages when no one talked about sex kids were still being born. We are worldly renewed for our prostitutes. But the absence of free speech about sexual matters is our problem and is what makes us so “pervert”. What about people being sexually educated? We need medias telling us more about safe sex, about women’s pleasure and anatomy.

Hypocrisy and vanity, unfortunately some of your comments only enforce the idea I have always had about the typical Lebanese. The perfect metaphor for our society is these women who are sexually liberated and who go through a chirurgical operation their hymens before the night of their marriage.

sooo i am Palestinian but this article really did hurt me; out of all the arab countries, Lebanon is probably the most modern. But news flash to you, there are a lot of conservative European countries. Spain and France are among them; for example, I can't walk down the streets of Madrid showing a lot of skin because people find it disrespectful. Does this sound familiar?

Looks like you should go dust off your history book Pooh Bear :D falas6enyeh is completely right! i went to europe and people were starin at me for wearing a short skirt. they dont believe in that stuff just as a lot of arabic countries dont

But Pooh's point about the sexual education is right I think. It doesn't mean that we're a conservative society that we shouldn't talk about it or ignore it. Education is always good and even in the most conservative towns of the most conservative states in the US (I live in the second conservative town in America), abstinence is the norm but they still educate kids about it and talk about it.
And the hymen thing too, he (or she, I'm talking about Pooh anyways) got a point there. It shouldn't be the criteria for a good girl vs. a bad girl. But most men in the Arabic world (not just in Lebanon) and traditional families still think that way.

@pooh: Kudos to you for writing an eye-opening article, really. The second post of your's gave us a better idea of what you were talking about!
P.s. Don't blame labanan, The whole Middle East, Africa and south asia is involved in this crime.
P.s.s. I don't think by making homosexuality legal, a nation becomes civilized. That's just , I don't have words to describe it..
P.S.S. Arabs are not the only one who use this site.
F.Y.I Love arabic music. I have as much fun listening to it , when listening to Subcontinental(Pakistan-India) music
@falas6: You are right. you can't walk down the streets of Madrid showing a lot of skin because people find it disrespectful. But, you can certainly walk down the beach totally naked!!!!Does this sound familiar to you(that's something i saw on Travel channel)!

@Ramy: i can't agree more on Margret thing. SO what are you planning to do to give your country a total make over?

I agree with you Pooh !
I'm lebanese , i'm gay and i'm forced to hide my relationship in front of my family like EVERY other leb gay I know , we ALL suffer. stop thinking that everything is great , i can see the truth in every word written by Pooh our society is Corrupted , forced to get an "we are open minded cool western-living society" way of thinking and 'we are the best' attitude
I just find that disgusting , no wonder everyone is so shoked by your post , because it's so true !

@ Pooh

I agree with what you say.. Like I said Lebanon is not perfect or near that, but it is not as bad as some may label it. Also I didn't mean that because Lebanon has all those archetectural advancements it is modern, of course I agree ideas are what is labelled as modern - I was just making simple points.
About the two police officers, I hear about it and I'm against it. I heard that there has been alot of backlash from the community over that incident. However, Lebanon is not the only country for this to happen, you still have "gay bashing" in Canada and the States (ones for or against gay marriages)... either way it should not be tolerable.

However, my point of replying wasn't to defend the country because facts are facts and me saying " its not like this, but like that" people could very well research it and proove me wrong.
What I do want to do though is get people to do something about issues rather than state them... I'm not pointing my finger at you I'm just saying that stating the issue allows for retaliation from people by opposing views. However, offering some light to help end the issue, that can only be answered with support if you get what I mean.

I plan on sticking to my word how to help make changes in your community with an article I will write in the near future I will send to Waleg.

Yeah, I agree about the gay point too. They may be bash them in Canada and in the US too but they rarely beat them up, they have clubs they can go too, they can go in dates, they can have a normal life despite all the hatred. Do you see that happening in the Arabic world? I don't think so and I don't think it will happen any soon. We are just not tolerant people, it takes us long time to accept something that is different to us. And unfortunately when we do, we find ourselves way behind other nations.

Sure I agree with you guys about the gays/lesbians and sex education....i believe gays and lesbians are equal to anyone who is straight or whatever!! i see nothing at all wrong with it; sex education is also important, it's the only way to teach abstinence!! However i don't believe this article has to be written in such a rude way...also I really love the belief in arab countries that we should dress conservatively and keep private matters private. I believe it gives the women a sense of pride; I hate that women have to show their entire bodies just to feel "liked" or whatever they may feel. Anyway this is just my opinion.

To me the question of gay is not about right or wrong, it's about freedom of choice, to me as long as you are not hurting anyone you're pretty much free to do whatever you want. In fact I sympathize a lot with gay people because I don't think you can control who you love, sometimes women fall for the most abusive, jerk guys on earth and they know they're bad guys but still for them, simply because it's not a rational thing, it's an emotional thing for heterosexuals and for homosexuals as well.

I would like to apologize from the people who have been hurt by my article, but I have the right to express my point of view. I admit once again that the article was written in a rude way for the simple reason that it wasn't meant to be an article, i didn't believe anyone would read it... The second comment I posted is clearer so please read it before being offended. Do not judge this site according to my comment I don't know this site, I'm not affiliated to it I only found it by doing a research on the net about Lebanese movie help.

Ramy, thank you for your constructive comment. I admit that Lebanon has some good points, but their bad points are enormous. I am not gonna say I admire Lebanon like it is just because I was born there and because we have an active nightlife and slutty popstars. I am not aiming to provoke a change in Lebanon, I have never considered myself to be an "activist". I think people are too indoctrinated by religion and moral values, and are too concerned by following a certain rule to be enlightened. However, I insist on sharing my ideas, making people think and maybe increasing the small number of people with opened minds. I do it only because it makes me feel good and not saying these things out loud seem unacceptable for me. Good luck anyways.

Now about religion, because what I wrote can be misinterpreted. You are very proud to say that in Lebanon we have the freedom of belief. I am sorry to inform you that having to belong to one of 20-something “legal” religions and having to state it on your papers is not freedom of belief. Freedom of belief is the freedom to keep those beliefs personal if you want to and the freedom to believe in ANYTHING THAT SUITS YOU no matter how absurd it might seems to other people. If only half of the pretended religious Christians were truly spiritual they would understand that and not force anything upon others. In fact, if all those who claimed to be Christians were really Christians we wouldn’t have all these problems. (I am talking about Christianity here because it is the religion I know the best, it is just an example). So you see I am not criticizing Christianity. I am criticizing people who follow blindly their parent’s religion without understanding it or thinking about it profoundly, just because it makes them feel safe to be sheep. Religion is not about god in Lebanon, it’s about social belonging. I did not prone atheism. I only wanted to show some examples of different beliefs. I could’ve said Buddhist, Zen, New Ager…

By the way, If you believe that the three monotheists religions you know are the only good one and other people are all stupid pagans I am sorry to tell you I think you are uncultivated people. Have you ever read anything about Buddhism? Did you know that the first monotheist religion was founded by Akhenaton in ancient Egypt?

Pooh,

No one can fault you for stating your oipnion, but I guess your comment was quite self-righteous and condescending thus your point of view did not come across as credible but more of an equal to the comments your were criticising.

In regards to your following ones, no one can say that Lebanon is perfect, I love my country but I am deeply disappointed in it and its people; Whether from a religious, political or social point of view, thus I wholeheartedly agree with what you are trying to convey.